Liverpool or Manchester United: Which club is bigger? – The debate

The athlete has launched a series of sports debates in which two writers analyse a particular topic. In this edition, Liverpool correspondent James Pearce and Manchester United writer Carl Anka discuss which club fans should be most excited about in the new Premier League season.

Liverpool and Manchester United meet in the Premier League at Old Trafford on Sunday as England’s two most successful clubs reignite their rivalry.

Both have experienced periods of dominance and relative decline, and although they both share a city with other top clubs (Everton and Manchester City), they continue to judge their successes and failures in relation to each other.

But there is some debate about which club is actually the biggest. How do you measure that? By league titles? By European cups? By the size of the stadium? By the global fan base?

Here, Liverpool correspondent James Pearce and Manchester United writer Carl Anka discuss. Leave your thoughts below.

Pearce: Fame has to be the most important factor here. In terms of domestic success, there is not much difference between these two heavyweights. United leads with 20 league titles, Liverpool with 19. But when it comes to winning the biggest prize in European club football, Liverpool are in a class of their own. Only Real Madrid and AC Milan have won more than six European Cups.

Not only have Liverpool won twice as many matches as United, but they were also responsible for the most legendary triumph in a Champions League final in history with the “Miracle of Istanbul” in 2005.

United simply does not have the same European heritage…

Anka: I’m not going to say that the Miracle of Istanbul is a more memorable Champions League final than 1999. Bayern Munich’s name was engraved on the trophy and United still found a way to win. I’d also argue that the win over AC Milan was less a miracle and more a sensible tactical adjustment. Rafa Benitez realised Steven Gerrard was running around like a headless chicken, so Dietmar Hamann was brought on at half-time, Gerrard’s energies were properly channelled and the good times rolled around. You can use Xs and Os to explain how Liverpool turned things around in 2005. You can’t really do the same for 1999, which makes it a bigger cosmic event.

And if you want to talk about last season’s trophy, United have an FA Cup trophy. And they earned it by first beating Liverpool in the quarter-finals…

United beat Liverpool in last season’s FA Cup (Michael Regan/Getty Images)

Pearce: Unfortunately, the FA Cup is no longer the competition it once was. The devaluation began when a club famously withdrew from participation in 1999/2000…

Yes, Liverpool and United finished last season with a trophy each, but they were separated by 22 points in the Premier League table, third against a distant eighth place.
It was the fourth time in the last six seasons that Liverpool finished ahead of United. It is less than 18 months since Liverpool thrashed United 7-0. The greatest are not so humbled…

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Anka: I did my best to remember that night at Anfield, so you can have that. If glory is the most important factor, then United are bigger in the more important competition. There are times when the best team in Europe fail to win the Champions League, but a league title is a league title and United have 20, Liverpool 19. United are going through a bad patch at the moment, but they remain the biggest football club in England and a commercial giant that few sports teams can compete with…

Pearce: Speaking of superiority, Klopp’s Liverpool were unlucky enough to face such a team: Manchester City. We’ll see if they were unfairly denied a few more titles when the verdict is passed on City’s 115 offences. The fact that Liverpool picked up 97 and 92 points in those years and still didn’t win the league was crazy – that’s more points than Ferguson’s United ever got in a 38-game season.

The biggest clubs have a clear strategy and vision. United’s approach to recruitment seems very indiscriminate. They have always spent more than Liverpool but squandered a fortune… Antony and Jadon Sancho, anyone?

Klopp and Liverpool celebrate their Premier League title (Laurence Griffiths/Getty Images)

Anka: And for all the hype and bluster, Liverpool failed to beat United in three games last season. On their best days, United still have more fans and more money in the bank. Even when you’re on the up, you struggle to land a tough blow on your biggest rivals.

But I’ll give you this, off the pitch, in terms of strategy, it’s remarkable how well FSG has managed Liverpool. It’s turned them into one of the most valuable clubs in the world. I say “one of the” because in May, figures compiled by Sportico ranked United as the world’s most valuable football club at $6.2 billion (£4.96 billion), while Liverpool were worth $5.11 billion.

Even during this FSG-Klopp-led peak, Liverpool cannot keep up financially and commercially in United’s footballing slump.

Pearce: After dominating in the 1970s and 1980s, Liverpool fell far behind United, but times have changed. United faltered after Ferguson, and during the Klopp era, Liverpool made rapid progress both on and off the pitch.

According to Blinkfire Analytics, Liverpool were the most engaged Premier League club last season (over 1.5 billion fan interactions) and the most viewed club on social media (11.9 billion views of club channels). Liverpool were also the most watched Premier League club globally last season. Audience insights, data and analytics experts Nielsen found that Liverpool had a cumulative global TV audience of 471 million across all 38 league matches (see details on the club website here).

And Liverpool were the first Premier League club to reach 10 million subscribers on YouTube. What’s more, interest is booming in the States and Liverpool has significantly closed the gap on United in terms of commercial revenue by signing lucrative deals with Google Pixel, Peloton, UPS and Orion Innovation. They all want a piece of Liverpool FC.

Anka: That growth has undoubtedly been impressive and they are getting closer and closer to United as a commercial draw, but back then United was run by the Glazer family in a dysfunctional crisis and yet somehow it has found a way to stay ahead.

Look at the Adidas deal: United signed a 10-year contract worth £900 million, a world record. Snapdragon’s investment in United over the next five years is $375 million. These are staggering sums of money being promised to a club that Liverpool cannot compete with.

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United’s argument would be that after a few years of sporting success and stability under INEOS, the gap between the clubs is likely to widen as more people – and their wallets – want to join a future, winning United team.

How will United perform financially under INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe? (Mike Hewitt/Getty Images)

Pearce: But enough about money, let’s get back to things on the pitch. After all the expenses, wWhich United players will actually make Liverpool’s best starting eleven? Maybe Kobbie Mainoo, if it matters. Certainly no one in defence or attack…

Anka: And despite all the hype and bluster, Liverpool failed to beat United in three games last season. United still have more fans and more money in the bank.

And what about the fans and stadiums? Liverpool exceeded expectations for home games with 60,107 spectators in their 2-0 win over Brentford. A respectable number, but not in the same weight class as United. And the planned new stadium could be a revelation.

Although United have the worst result in the Premier League, Ten Hag’s team still have the advantage.

Pearce: Due to its limited location, Anfield will never be able to compete with Old Trafford in terms of size, but the transformation has been impressive – two stands have been rebuilt and extended at a cost of around £200 million and the capacity has increased from 44,000 to around 61,000.

Anfield has been modernised at a sensible and affordable cost whilst retaining the history and tradition of the place. What a contrast to the way Old Trafford has been neglected and left to decay. It is a sad state of affairs. Has the roof been repaired yet?

Anka: Hey! This isn’t just an Old Trafford problem! You saw it rain in Dortmund during the European Championships, and in the Premier League this weekend too. Many stadiums are struggling with the more fickle weather. But rest assured, when United decide what to do next with their stadium, it will be a triumph. Anyway, is your new manager ready for Sunday? Erik ten Hag has won two of his previous meetings with him and lost two…

Pearce: It will certainly be a culture shock for Arne Slot after his relatively gentle introduction to life in the Premier League. It will open his eyes to the sheer intensity and hostility of the rivalry and Liverpool travel to Old Trafford in a position it has become increasingly accustomed to in the modern era – facing United.

Anka: Shall we race to 21?

For more on Sunday’s showdown at Old Trafford, listen to our dedicated Manchester United podcast ‘Talk of the Devils’ or our Liverpool podcast ‘Walk On’, whichever you prefer.

(Top photo: United and Liverpool played a friendly in South Carolina in August; by Grant Halverson/Getty Images)